Thursday, March 05, 2009

Manhasset, NY - Underperforming, Bloated Public Schools



[Note that Manhasset is a very wealthy town. It used to be a real bastion of Wall Streeters. Bill O'Reilly actually lives there currently.]

A reader emailed an *independent* report on their local school system on Long Island:

Salary Plus Benefits

Average salary without benefits $101,339.
Median salary without benefits $104,278

Average salary including benefits $149,404
Median salary including benefits $153,736

Pension Costs

Today if a teacher retires after 30 years at $126,000 the average pension is $88,200 (assuming 70% payout).

If a teacher receives a Pension for 25 years the cost will be $2,205,000. The teacher will make more in retirement than they made while working. This plus the Medical Benefits they receive in retirement you will see clearly why.....school taxes are out of control.

$2.2 million???

For each teacher???

Look at the ridiculous salaries of the administrators:



Look at the town's academic *underperformance*:



Other rankings:

On *Living Environment* and *Physics*- they placed 8th locally.

And in *Global History* and *US History* - Manhasset placed 9th locally (out of 9!).

Yet first in *Cost Per Student*!!!

Those results were published, no, not by the school board, but by a local group calling themselves Manhasset Proponents for School Accountability.

That organization is doing, well, what you would expect. It's trying to shed sunlight on what they think is a horrible, expensive school system. I say good luck to them - because they won't likely make much progress.

Schools are beyond reform for so many reasons. Sure, this organization might stall additional spending; it may even wrest some administrative fat trimming and wage concessions....

But as you can see above, from the already promised pension benefits ($2 freaking million per teacher!), this school district is already way beyond financially bankrupt.

Furthermore, the system is educationally bankrupt. Well-intentioned Manhassetites are trying to keep up with the standardized test scores of surrounding towns yet that has nothing to do with competently preparing youth for ethical, productive, INDEPENDENT living. (And/or maybe they just want tax relief?)



Can y'all imagine that they call science/biology - "Living Environment" - now?

My source hyperbolically informs me that Kaplan Testing is the most booming business in Manhasset these days. It looks like Kumon is there too.

While the magnitude of the spending in this tony town will seem extreme to non-New Yorkers, I'm quite sure they are in the same financial proportion as your own local school district.

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

This District, along with many in NYS has soaked the uninformed and just plain dumb for years, all the while, claiming it was "for the children". In fact, it has and continues to be for the unions.
If salaries translated into quality teaching, Manhasset would be number one. Instead, the results speak for themselves. The root of the problem is that administrators and teachers are automatically given bonanza salaries with 6% increases yearly despite performance. Not one tenured teacher has been removed for poor performance in years.

CaptiousNut said...

$23,000 spent per pupil is mindboggling.

People can complain all they want about the cost and effectiveness of their local government schools.

But that doesn't change the fact that education is primarily and ultimately a parental responsibility.

Anonymous said...

Maybe they should unleash a half dozen Dylan Klebolds on the school. To hell with due process on removing bad tenured teachers.

CaptiousNut said...

There's certainly something to be said for the correlation between school violence and the dehumanizing, anti-socializing, failed experiment of mass schooling.

When was the last time a homeschooler went berserk?

Anonymous said...

although I agree that manhasset teachers are very highly overpaid, I received a great education from the manhasset public schools, and my teachers were really able to give me the individual attention that I needed, and I appreciate all that my teachers did to help me gain acceptances to great colleges. You can complain all you want, but you're either an adult without children left in your house, or you are just envious of manhasset residents because they receive this special attention that you hadnt growing up. My time growing up in manhasset, though, I doubt would be unrivaled by the majority of public schools. And the fact that I want to be a teacher myself actually gives me hope that I won't have to be like most naggy teachers who complain that they're "poor," seeing as how manhasset generously pays their administrators.



and PS- I'm not exactly sure that you can post pictures of students on your ANONYMOUS "manhasset blog" without their consent. So, I'm guessing that you don't even know the people in that picture, and if I were in that picture, I would force you to take it down because I wouldn't want to be affiliated with your bitter little blog.


-CO2008.

Anonymous said...

Also as a graduate of Manhasset High School, I feel the ends justify the means. While looking at figures on a spreadsheet can make the salaries appear bloated, the numbers take on a whole new meaning when observing the overall life education a student will get at Manhasset. While being a student at the school, you really feel like the teachers are happy in their educational field. This extends from academics to athletics. All teachers and admins seem to really want to help students not just be better students but also well rounded functioning members of society. I don't think that can be measured by comparing test scores to other schools. Throughout my life I have known many peers who have scored better than I on many tests. However that does not mean that they are "better" or are even more well equipped to be in the real world. I have met kids who are very bright who can't even look you in the eye when they are shaking your hand. They can't speak in public or be cordial and amiable in a social setting as well. The Manhasset staff provides great all around education to its students, and this shows in their post-education successes. Manhasset grads occupy a number of professions. They continue to reinvest in their community and that it one of the reasons the community continues to thrive today. I don't think your numbers and spreadsheets can accurately portray that fact.

CaptiousNut said...

***I don't think your numbers and spreadsheets can accurately portray that fact.***

I agree.

That's why I'm grateful to have Manhasset grads post comments here to buttress my thesis!

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure why you think my comment supports your thesis. Anyway, the bottom line is that a lot of success comes out of Manhasset Schools. I'm not sure if you are from the area but there are a lot of great citizens of Manhasset. Many of them are products of the Manhasset school system. Residents with graduate degrees or higher are significantly above state average. The town is also very family oriented. Two parent households are also above the state average. We have nurses, surgeons, physicians, executives, teachers (as you know), small business owners and much more. The people of Manhasset are very well rounded as well. While in high school many of my peers including myself were involved in honors societies while also being heavily involved in athletics as well as music.

The teachers and staff encourage students to always be broadening their horizons. I had a number of teachers who I considered friends because I could talk to the about anything. I had a few teachers my senior year who would constantly ask about my college search and offer to help in any way they could. I could tell that they really cared about me and my classmates. They let us know that they were proud of our accomplishments in and outside the classroom. Their kind words strengthened me as a student and really made me believe in my potential. I don't think I price can be put on that type of education.

Anonymous said...

The teachers are not to blame for the inept people who "volunteer" to be board members. There is no way they are competent enough to negotiate with the most powerful union in the country. They will take whatever you give them.
These people are not as altrustic as they would like you to believe.
The board should have some members who don't have kids in the school. It is a conflict of interest for all parties involved to have kids in the school system with such a bloated budget.
The current systems lends itself to special awards, favors, the best teachers, etc. given to the "friends" of the administration. The board is elected by the taxpayers to represent them and all children. Do you feel that the board is representing your interests and the interests of a majority of the students?
For all who read this blog, please be advised that the Board of Education is having a brief session tomorrow morning at 7:15 a.m. in Mr. Cardillo's office. My guess is that it is a cya public session to reveal the decision handed down from PERB on July 23, 2009 regarding their ill advised outsourcing of transportation. I guess they really want a big audience.

CaptiousNut said...

I don't blame the *teachers* - even though most government school teachers are from the second lowest quintile of academic performance.

Nor did I address the *board*. True, they aren't interested in standing up to the thuggery that is the teacher's union.

The *system* is at fault, and explains the entire abject failure.

Read John Gatto.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Bear, Manhasset and the people from Manhasset are far superior to anyone, anywhere.

End of story.

Let's go Set!

Anonymous said...

In the Manhasset press
taken from a letter:
"There is a large group of mothers that volunteer and “run the show” in this town......

And the more involved in this town you are I can promise you the nastier your child is to others."

Yup that's Manhasset

Here's the link

http://www.antonnews.com/manhassetpress/opinion/3982-letter-is-it-too-late-to-raise-a-bully.html

CaptiousNut said...

I feel bad for that mother/daughter.

But they should rightfully be at home, teaching and learning from each other.

Anonymous said...

Read Manhasset Proponents for School Accountability piece, "Theatre of the Absurd aka Manhasset School District Board Meeting" Would be even funnier if the poor taxpayer wasn't getting stuck with the bill for the bus outsourcing fiasco.

Anonymous said...

Its so terrible everywhere a manhasset kid goes he/she are hated on. I didnt seem to get it until I got to college. Its just the fact that everyone outside of manhasset wishes they grew up there. Manhasset is Gods Country, it is because it's the greatest place ever created and if you are not from there you can not see it. People just cant get over the fact that no matter what they do they can never be as superior as someone that is from Gods Country. I almost feel bad, but not really. I have a butler spot open though...

skiing said...

You know, maybe you should actually try to learn about the school, instead of getting crap from a list. If you actually attend it, you notice that its a friendly environment for a student, and they that much money for those teachers, because they're amazing. Half the people on there, Dorman, Aaron,Cardillo, are all amazing role models. Face it, you have to learn your facts first, before trying to get some list off a website. Manhasset is an amazing community, nuff'said

Anonymous said...

Stop parading around without a shirt to try and look good. "Breeding Contest - I'd Win" You are just a huge tool. We're Manhasset and we're better than you.

Anonymous said...

As a current student at Manhasset I can say that the public school is far superior than many of those currently active in NY. Though many call us "arrogant" and "small minded" I believe that this town allows a kid to grow up more independent and able to make it far in life. As a second child, I saw my older sibling graduate from Manhasset High School, whom received an excellent education, attend one of the most prestigious and elite Universities in the United States, and currently works for a major company located in NYC. Though your blog is suppose to be "informative";however, I strongly disagree with your opinion. The Manhasset School distract does not only erects good work ethic, but it also teaches a student the ability to "make it far in life", through good decision making. Though your most uninformative blog is set to "wow" the minds of people, I disprove your logic as I am also another intelligent product of the Manhasset Public Schools.

Anonymous said...

we manhassetites are a proud people, and maybe u should learn something about us before ur trash us. yes me may have some arrogant an overprotective people but we are a tight knot community who have incredibly srtong bond. The reason we pay our teachers so much is because the community is incredibly affluent and we have the liberty to do so. The teachers here are excellent for the most part ( p.s the one whose been here forever is irritating but he gets the job done) As a student i believe that manhasset is aiding my ability to succeed. We have a highly trained and friendly staff that will guide u if u need help. With this supreme level of education i should have more opportunities than the average high school student. Ur making primitive assumptions based on biased data. The comments above prove ur thesis false.

Anonymous said...

at least we get chicks

Anonymous said...

We here at Manhasset receive one of the best educations a public school can offer. We have one of the best special education systems. I know this because my brother and sister both with learning disabilities. Have received a excellent education and received a lot of attention needed for them. Now as a current student, i agree we receive a excellent education and have a special bond with our teachers. The teachers are passionate and give a great learning experience all around.

Anonymous said...

despite the over-excessive salaries and benefits that our teachers obtain, they provide us with the necessary tools for success in the future. that is what our school fosters. its not for the teacher unions, its for the students. believe me or not, but roughly 25% of graduates attend ivy league schools.

Anonymous said...

Manhasset High School graduate here- I see a lot of recent comments (with poor spelling and grammar), likely from current students, praising the community and the teachers. The phrase "God's Country" gets tossed out a few times as well. Claims that "everyone else is just jealous" are the common defense.

I laugh at this. The phrase "god's country" oozes with the white christian conservative arrogance this town is filled with. That very attitude of false superiority is part of the problem itself. Manhasset students seem to develop a sense of arrogance from a young age. Everyone's parents have 3 nice cars to drop them off in front of school in the morning and pick them up at the end of the day. Yes Manhasset is highly affluent, but the "community" is really not that great. The social atmosphere is exclusive and sometimes nasty, especially for the kids. But even as a young adult I walk down Plandome Road nearly every day and see people I've never seen before, and likely wont see again. It all feels false and cold. People don't really know each other. They're just shopping. The image of a "tight-knit community" some of you perceive is illusory. Yes local people who actually know one another do care about each other, you can't deny that, but you'll find that anywhere.

The education you receive at MHS is good, but nothing that special, and probably not worth the money (though I am suspicious of the figures presented in this article, as they have no cited source and look a little fabricated, I do know that school taxes are very high here so I can assume the figures are close to reality). The comments from current students are really pointless, as they've never actually experienced another community/school's environment, and have no way of knowing if a school that pays its teachers half as much could be equally as educational/encouraging, if not more so.

To the person who said "at least we get chicks"... literally anyone with a marginally functioning brain and body can find someone to have sex with them. Your argument is arrogant, useless, and symptomatic of the very issue at hand.

Wait...why am I writing this at all? Who's going to actually read this and agree with me anyway? The world is filled with idiots. Goodnight.

CaptiousNut said...

25% of Manhasset grad go to the Ivy League?

It's a *tight KNOT* community?

Keep them flying little boys and girls....you're cracking me up!!!

What about those test scores? What about lagging your neighboring towns - ALL OF THEM?!?!?!

They say that American schools, while lagging other countries in all academic categories, come in first in at least one - *confidence*. Obviously Manhasset is a great example of that self-delusional phenomena.

Anonymous said...

Im pretty you serious trouble for posting the faces of students without their consent. This blog is not only an invasion of privacy, but also extremely offensive.

Anonymous said...

have you ever been to Manhasset? because it really sounds you never your mother's basement.

Anonymous said...

Agreeing with the person who said "im pretty sure you can get in trouble", it is illegal to post the faces in your blog without their consent. You criticize the intelligence of many Manhasset kids while you are too thick headed to look at your self. I think you are the one that needs to get an education. I wouldn't doubt that you didnt even go to college. And if you did, you probably attended a community college. you are too focused on what we don't have, but its funny because I bet that we live in a town with a better educational system than you.

Anonymous said...

so captious nut sack im guessing no more comebacks..........?

CaptiousNut said...

You kids are victims, I'm on your side believe it or not. (You might one day, or not.)

Right now you're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome - among many other disorders. Look it up.

Anonymous said...

I am currently a student at Manhasset High, and yes, the teachers are overpaid! However, I love getting up and going to school every day, along with most of my peers. Also, I feel like the teachers really do care about us, and that I am receiving the best education possible! Ask yourself, how many kids can say that? In addition to great teachers and staff, the facities are state of the art! Attending Manhasset is extremely rewarding, and a outstanding majority of kids who attend Manhasset go on to Ivy League schools! I am proud to attend Manhasset High!

I know many of you reading this are going to be thinking I am a spoiled, rich brat writing this. I know that I can't keep you from thinking this, but just know that you are completely wrong about me. I come from a single parent household, and we have trouble making ends meet. I'll probably live the rest of my life trying to repay my student loans from college, and getting my PhD (which I probably would never dream of getting without the encouragement of my great teachers!) Not all people who live here are rich, plastics. The point I'm trying to make, is, know all of the facts before you judge.

CaptiousNut said...

Anon,

The *majority* of Manhasset graduates go on to Ivy League schools????

Hah!

You do know what a majority is, right?

Matt said...

I think the point of this blog is being lost amongst the name calling, intelligence bashing and pointing our peoples gramatical errors. However this is the internet so I don't know why I would expect anything different. The "Morons" in the post name most likely made people scroll right down to the comments line and take a shot at CaptiousNut. Though CaptiousNut seems to not be above the name calling, he does make a good point that should concern residents of Manhasset.

CaptiousNut is not saying that Manhasset is a horrible school system (correct me if I'm wrong CaptiousNut). He is poiting out the fact that teachers in the school district make much more than other school districts who are performing better and the salary and benefits are becoming unsustainable. I don't think anybody should be taking offense to that point. Teachers here are making a lot of money, and I think parents should be demanding either better academic performance or some cost cutting measures. I mean, come on, its your money and children on the line here so put your pride aside. If your school district is spending like this you need to assess whether it is worth it. Do we need all these tenured teachers at salaries like this? Is it worth the cost? In my opinion we do not (and I am a Manhasset HS grad who still loves Manhasset.)

As far as all the "gods country" stuff...come on guys, dont embarrass Manhasset. I love Manhasset but the more comments like these and facebook groups talking about how much better Manhasset is than other places is taking away from my Manhasset pride. This is most certainly not a product of the school system but a product of wealthy parents who have obviously instilled a sense of superiority (intenionally or unintentionally)that their kids now take to an uber stuck-up level. It seems to be getting worse since I was in high school. Maybe I just notice it more now as a young adult. Let your actions do the talking guys, no need to tell anyone how great you are.

Matt said...

I think the point of this blog is being lost amongst the name calling, intelligence bashing and pointing our peoples gramatical errors. However this is the internet so I don't know why I would expect anything different. The "Morons" in the post name most likely made people scroll right down to the comments line and take a shot at CaptiousNut. Though CaptiousNut seems to not be above the name calling, he does make a good point that should concern residents of Manhasset.

CaptiousNut is not saying that Manhasset is a horrible school system (correct me if I'm wrong CaptiousNut). He is poiting out the fact that teachers in the school district make much more than other school districts who are performing better and the salary and benefits are becoming unsustainable. I don't think anybody should be taking offense to that point. Teachers here are making a lot of money, and I think parents should be demanding either better academic performance or some cost cutting measures. I mean, come on, its your money and children on the line here so put your pride aside. If your school district is spending like this you need to assess whether it is worth it. Do we need all these tenured teachers at salaries like this? Is it worth the cost? In my opinion we do not (and I am a Manhasset HS grad who still loves Manhasset.)

As far as all the "gods country" stuff...come on guys, dont embarrass Manhasset. I love Manhasset but the more comments like these and facebook groups talking about how much better Manhasset is than other places is taking away from my Manhasset pride. This is most certainly not a product of the school system but a product of wealthy parents who have obviously instilled a sense of superiority (intenionally or unintentionally)that their kids now take to an uber stuck-up level. It seems to be getting worse since I was in high school. Maybe I just notice it more now as a young adult. Let your actions do the talking guys, no need to tell anyone how great you are.